Remember Kim and Mike Petersen?

Hi All
If you remember Kim and Mike, Stefan and Lauren, you might also remember that they sold their house and all its contents in order to buy a boat and sail the ocean blue. Well, not only did they do that, but Kim has written a book about their adventure, and is currently writing part two. It is a fabulous book about her inner journey - all that was really going on in her life as outwardly she and her family were embarking on a big adventure.

I loved it - I laughed, I cried (truly) and I learned a lot. You should read it!

Disillusioned, Part E

If you missed parts A-D, see the post below this one - Disillusioned?

I'm thinking a lot about church and realistic expectations of the community we are. So after a couple of great comments and more thinking since my last post on this, here's some more.

I have been thinking about what we said last time, and wondering how that differs from my workplace, or any other organization that is together for a common interest or goal? Of course there are horrible workplaces and org.'s and for those it would be easy to say of course we are different. But if you work in a place where people are respected and everyone is professional about things...where is the difference? This is what bothers me the most about the phrase "They'll know we are christians by our love". (Sorry for putting that tune in your head!!)

That phrase makes me think there must be a noticable difference, or where is our witness? Usually I respond to this concern in me with resolve to do more loving things for others. Or to find a program that might facilitate that better among us. I don't know if others think this way, or if it's just me...

But what on earth does that phrase mean? Or what should it mean? Does it mean that we are amazingly good at meeting each other's needs? I think that I kind of think it does, but I also know that we are not. So that bothers me. But when I try to think this whole thing through, I start to question that meaning.

In my experience church can be a very difficult place to be, because it can seem like the expectations are very high. Admittedly, that is partly because my expectations of myself are high, and so when I add anything to that, they become very high. I also know that there are many of you who expect alot of yourselves also, so I am not the only one.

In some ways my workplace is simpler. Not because anyone is perfect, but because when you are not, people just look at you like "what is your problem" and then they decide whether or not they like you, and that is that. They do or they don't. At church, it feels far more complicated. People don't just decide whether or not they like you, they decide how 'mature in your faith' you are, or whether or not you are a good christian. sigh. I'm talking about the whole church here, not just ours.

Anyway, all that to say this: If we are supposed to be known by our love, which is the love of Jesus, shouldn't we be the easiest, safest, most accepting place to be? (Don't get me wrong, I have also experienced that in church at times too, truly.)

I want to try something here, so back to biblegateway...I'll be right back...and now for a little editing:

Church is patient, church is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. Church is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Church does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

How's that work for you? Hmmmm....

Remember the already and the not yet of the Kingdom of God...thanks Tina...

This makes more sense to me than trying to DO things in order to be a witness by loving. (The doing should be a natural out-growth of the being.)

GTG, supper is on the table! thanks for reading...please join in if you like! What think ye?

Shelley

Disillusioned?

What a gorgeous day it is out (Sunday)...I have been hoeing away for quite awhile, hoping to have an acceptable home for some veg. this summer. The great thing about doing work like that is the fresh warm air and sunshine, and the time to think. The blisters and sore back not so much...but it's a worthwhile trade, I think. :)

Part A
I have been thinking about disillusionment, since Scott spoke on it this morning. Being disillusioned really sucks. Because it's not just a matter of bursting your unrealistic bubble and carrying on. It'a a real drag because the reason we have illusions or idealistic visions of things in the first place is because we have needs and desires, and we were really hoping that they would be met in our illusion. So now that our bubble has been burst, there they are...out there...unmet...what to do...
And I wonder - were my needs/desires unrealistic too? And that line of thinking just hurts, because we need what we need, and we want what we want. Those are who we are, and to think that part of ourselves is illegit is tough cookies. And wrong thinking.
The problem with our illusions isn't the need or desire that pointed us there, it's that we had hoped that our needs/desires would be met and satisfied somewhere they could not be. So when the bubble bursts, it isn't the need that was the problem, it's that we now realize that it won't be met there. And that is disappointing and very concerning to us.
When we realize that we are disillusioned, we are often pretty hard on ourselves; that we believed in the illusion in the first place. And often we are pretty mad at whoever we thought should execute our illusion, because they failed to do so. But we shouldn't be upset with ourselves about our needs/desires. They are what they are, and they are a part of all of us. They are legit. And we shouldn't be mad at someone else, since probably we were asking too much of them - hence - it was an illusion. What we need to do is regroup and take another look at what we should do with those needs and desires that is healthy and true. And that part of this conversation is best taken up with Jesus.

Part B
(I told you I was out there for a long time...you can come back later, I won't be offended)
'Say there was an organization, full of wonderful people, fully committed to a common goal, multi-talented and gifted. After a number of years in existence, with the commitment and efforts from all remaining strong, and efforts to learn and grow sustained over the years, this organization still falls short of one of it's main goals and values. What would you say the problem might be?'
Maybe, you say, 'sour leadership'.
And I reply, 'nope, good guess, but they have had humble, serving, committed leaders who have been dedicated to do their best and see this organization be successful. They aren't perfect, but the effort and good attitude has been there. Try again'.
You say, 'they must be missing a skill set essential to the implementing their goal'.
'Okay', I say, 'maybe'. They have wondered that too, and have searched far and wide for what might be missing; in fact some of them have burnt-out looking for it.'
'Wait', you say, 'Then would wonder if their goal was realistic for their organization?'
'Hmmm'.
I say. 'Good point. Let me think about that.'

Part C (by now my back is hurting, and I have to stop hoeing and rake for awhile...it's looking good though!)
One of the big pains in our CV family is the issue of community. Pain for those who believe in it strongly and try their guts out to create it, and feel that they have fallen short, exhausted and, you guessed it, disillusioned. And pain for those who need it and look for it and hope for it here, and don't find it enough, or at all, or in a way that meets their need. Disillusioned. So I am thinking and wondering...and please join me if you have something to add, because this is in no way a finished thought process...is our goal and picture of community realistic?

Here are a few of my thoughts on that. (longest post ever, I know.)
I know that Christians can be very hard on themselves with what they think they should be and do. And I know that our desire to follow Jesus can be very strong, since we are responding to incredible love and forgiveness, and in that intensity we can end up trying very very hard to please God. And this can cause us to try and be all that Jesus models for us in our own strength and with our own effort and commitment. And I know that it can't be done, because Jesus says we need to die to ourselves, and let him do it in us. So that's one illusion.

I also know that this 'hard on ourselves' attitude leaks out to us being very hard on each other in a Christian community. I can't tell you how many times I have heard, and yes, thought myself, 'she should know better, because she's a Christian.' Which is translated as 'she should be perfect, dammit! How dare she hurt me like that!' Illusion also.

I also know that many people think that friendships just happen for wonderful people, kind of like good kids are given to most parents, but the kids I got are not good. Ever watch Supernanny? Parents of 'out-of-control' kids call up Supernanny and ask her to come and fix their kids, because they want a happy family, not this chaos they are living in. And in rides Supernanny, and surprise surprise, she tells the parents everything they are doing wrong, and loves up on the kids. Turns out (every time) that it wasn't the kids at all, it was the parents. 'Good' kids don't just happen, they are the product of effective, committed parents. The same goes for friends. Good friends don't just happen to good people. Good friends happen when people put in time and effort and commitment into building those friendships. Another illusion.

What does it mean to love each other? I think we most often think it means marriage, or parents and kids, or best friends. And it does. But is it realistic to think that everyone we are in church community with will be connected to us like that? Of course not. But I wonder if we really know that, when we are in crisis and people don't call us up and invite us out for coffee, like a good friend would. So no, you say, of course I don't expect that from the whole church, but I do expect it from a few. Okay, that's realistic, I say. If you have put in time and effort and commitment into those relationships, it is realistic that those friendships would continue when you are in crisis. I don't think that is an illusion, and it's also realistic that there are times when our friends can't do coffee, and we all know that and don't freak out about it, so that's still realistic.

But what about when you don't have those close friends built up to be there for you when you are in crisis, or just to walk with you, no matter how you are doing? What is the church community supposed to do for you then? And there's the rub. (Time for a sit down and a glass of water.)

We are supposed to love each other. 'They'll know we are Christians by our love.' So back to 'What does it mean to love each other?' I Cor. 13. Sure, let's look at that. Hold on while I Biblegateway it.

1 Corinthians 13
Love
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

So what think ye? First part - love is the most important thing. So good goal, realistic so far. Note: giving my body up even to death and giving everything I have to the poor is not love, neither is the awesome-est faith-filled prayer ever, or a very cool prophecy for you. interesting. illusion too, maybe.
Second part - everything to do with how we treat each other. No mention of time or coffee - it's not about what we do for each other, but about our attitude toward each other. (just thinking outloud here...)
Third part - hold up. Love never fails? I sure fail, all the #(*$&#^ time. Sorry. But so do you. So I, clearly, am not love, neither do I love all the time. that's an illusion for sure. back to biblegateway, hang on.

1 John 4:7-the end.
God's Love and Ours
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Wow. There is a lot there...I might have to go hoe some more.
Love comes from God, God is love. Love isn't how we treat each other, but how he treats us. What? say that again. Love isn't how we treat each other, but how he treats us. How does he treat us? Go back to 1 Cor. 13.

We can't love without him, or without knowing him. We can't know love without knowing him.

Part Thee
So...what does it mean to love each other in a church community? and what is a realistic goal for a community, and a realistic expectation from that community?

okay, so now my back hurts from sitting in front of the computer, so you are going to have to take it from here. if you have any flashes of brilliance, or another question maybe, or even just a small point to make...please do...

Shelley

It's Unsettling

As leaders we know about an issue at CV that has been raised over and over again by many of you over the years, and we have filed it in the "We don't know what to do about this" pile, where a few other things are and will remain until clarity arrives. The reason we don't know what to do, is because we don't want to make our ushers into "shush" cops, and God forbid we shush someone who is not a 'church' person and inadvertantly communicate to them that they don't know the unwritten rules of this place, and so they don't/can't belong. We also know we want to welcome everyone, and so we don't want to be a place where propriety rules over welcome. I guess I am writing about this today because maybe just talking about it is a good thing. I have been thinking about silence, and sometimes silence about an issue is loud, you know? So here I go.

Lately I have been unsettled about a number of things in my own life, and as a result I have found Sunday morning service difficult for me - specifically the singing part. I know when I come - even more so because I am struggling - that I need to connect with Jesus, and find the perspective that worship brings: it puts Jesus back into the centre - but I am finding (like many many others have for many years) that the noise in the back half of our sanctuary, esp. at the 11:00 service, drives me to distraction. It's like that unsettledness; of voices and doors and feet, etc., gloms (is that even a word?) on to my own unsettledness, until it is a big glob of stuff inside me that blocks my own worship experience and turns it into frustation and effort and guilt and more frustration...until the singing ends and I feel worse off than I did before I came.

So as I stand and stew lately, I have been watching and thinking. I have noticed that a lot of the noise is from kids, and I want them to worship with us. Sometimes the voices that distract me are people praying for each other, and then I feel terrible that they have distracted and annoyed me. Sometimes is people who I think might not know better, and I want them to be a part of us too.

I have also noticed that much of the noise is any of us coming into the sanctuary after the music has begun, and because we are just arriving we meet and greet our friends before we find our seat and start singing. I noticed this because I have caught myself doing it.

I used to be in the children's centre most Sundays, and over there we teach the kids that we don't talk to each other during worship because that is a time when God might be talking to us on the inside, and so we don't want to either miss what he is saying to us, or to interrupt what he is saying to someone else. Since I have caught myself coming in late and chatting with whoever I pass as I make my way to my seat, I am trying to be more mindful of this.

I am trying to be mindful too that it is first of all my own unsettledness that is precipitating my struggle with this, and so I don't want my annoyance to distract me from facing my own stuff. And I don't want to take out my own stuff on other people.

I also know though, that as a person, regardless of how I am doing, I am easily distracted. And because I am predominantly left-brained, doing a right-brained thing like worship requires focus for me. So I am not saying that everyone who struggles with this is struggling themselves, not by a long-shot. Some of us just notice stuff like this more than others.

If half of us are left-brain dominant, then that means half of us might have trouble with distractions while worshipping...

Anyway, like I said at the beginning, this one is still in the "we don't know what to do about this' pile, where it has been for many years, and might stay forever. We are a church that wants to embrace others and we value encounter with Jesus and community over rules and regs. And so this might just be something we will have to juggle. And that's okay. But I also know that I have become more mindful of my own contribution to this lately, and so maybe bringing it up might twig some of you too. :)

Like in all families, I love who we are, and sometimes it drives me crazy.

Shelley

cv pictures

The Test of Three

A Parable

Keep this philosophy in mind the next time you hear, or are about to repeat a rumour.

In ancient Greece (469 - 399 BC), Socrates was widely lauded for his wisdom. One day the great philosopher came upon an acquaintance, which ran up to him excitedly and said, "Socrates, do you know what I just heard about one of your students...?"

"Wait a moment," Socrates replied. "Before you tell me, I'd like you to pass a little test. It's called the Test of Three."

"Test of Three!?!"

"That's correct," Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my student let's take a moment to test what you're going to say. The first test is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?"

"No," the man replied, "actually I just heard about it."

"All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true or not. Now let's try the second test - the test of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me about my student something good?"

"No, on the contrary..."

"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about him even though you're not certain it's true?" The man shrugged, a little embarrassed. Socrates continued, "You may still pass though because there is a third test - the filter of Usefulness. Is what you want to tell me about my student going to be useful to me?"

"No, not really..."

"Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither True, nor Good nor even Useful, why tell it to me at all?"

The man was defeated and ashamed and said no more. This is the reason Socrates was a great philosopher and held in such high esteem.

Reflection Questions

1. Do I ever find myself slipping into gossip and incivility?

2. How do I feel if and when people speak about me in this way?

3. In what ways do gossip and incivility become obstacles to God's vision of loving community?

This is from a workplace doc. I received recently. I thought it was pretty good! Shelley

Vineyard Churches: 4 factors that we need to face?

I have republished here a blog by Jason Clark. Jason is a Vineyard pastor in the UK and a theologian. He often makes very interesting assessments on the Emerging Church from a Vineyard perspective. I think it is interesting to see here his analysis of the British Vineyard Movement as we are in Canada making some interesting transitions as well. Take a look. You can find Jason at deep church.

rob

By Jason Clark
7 Feb 2010

Over the last week, we have had a lively discussion here with the post ‘is there any move left in the movement’, prompted by my reflections on a talk by Caleb Maskell.
In that post I promised some follow up, one of which was to review Caleb’s analysis of the vineyard movement , and future possibilities in more detail.
So starting here, I offer an outline of what I heard Caleb say, and then I’ll post some of my questions and reflections in a follow up post.

1. Transition: The vineyard is in transition, moving from a ‘renewal movement’ to a ‘church movement. A movement that renewed the church at large, but that now needs to become a movement of disciple making, and this transition has been and is still, a painful one.

2. Pruning: Caleb drew on some bible passages much used by the Vineyard itself (e.g Isaiah 61), to frame this process as part of season, and the wintering of the Vineyard and a time of pruning that has been taking place, for the necessity and before the possibility of new growth. Things that used to work don’t any more, and many of us in vineyard might be asking if we are a branch that has been cut off.

3. Choice: As a movement we can pursue more extreme forms of renewal and revival, for our orientation, but need to bear in mind the revivals our movement prophesied that didn’t happen, and perhaps instead explore the move to be a ‘church movement’

4. Causes of the Vineyard Wintering:

a. Toronto: The realisation that renewal is not an end in itself no matter how much some of us enjoyed it. The Toronto blessing and the Toronto Vineyard Church, was the moment the Vineyard really went global as a renewal movement amongst a renewal movement. Yet this most famous of vineyard churches stopped being a vineyard church, and the promised revivals didn’t come to pass.

b. Evangelicalism under question: The Evangelicalism that Vineyard based itself on came under fire, with questions from the Emerging Church, about authority, bible, worship, evangelical culture, and rightly so. This rocked the boat of the church in the US and UK. The Vineyard movement didn’t have the institutional gears to respond to this, no matter how much it new the questions were important.

c. Moral Failure: The burn out and major moral failings of some of our most well known leaders, has been ongoing, and a large cause of the pruning and pain.

d. Next generation: The first generation of kids have grown up in the vineyard, and made us consider more directly the questions they are asking about church and faith. This raises the needs for a sense of formation over time and not just in the moment. A church ‘renewal’ is in the moment, whereas a ‘church movement’ looks for things over time, and formation, for practical wisdom alongside the immediacy of the prophetic.

5. Silence not judgment: Seasons of pruning are best met, at least initially, with silence not judgment. Like the feeling of visiting a graveside or ending a marathon, wintering seasons bring a combination of joy and pain, victory and defeat is not easily distilled. But we must bear its weight and we must learn from it. We ignore its lessons at our peril. We are coming into a new season of spring, but we must come with more maturity, with the wisdom born of our suffering.

6. Hope: That hope is that we have the tools, but we must begin to ask the hard questions that arise, for building a movement that makes disciples. There are things to think about theologically and practically, to think these through, and of how we are forming our theological imaginations.